Radwagon Controller and Display Upgrade

[Rjbur007]

Well Santa delivered two upgrade kits, one for my wife's RadWagon  and one for mine.

https://boltonebikes.com/collections/motor-controllers-and-displays/products/radrover-upgrade-kit

We have the 2018 RadWagons.  Wondering is anyone else has done the same upgrade and found the best settings for this setup.  As you will note, the kit was originally for the RadRover and the RadWagon has a direct drive motor.  I have not installed mine yet.  The site and emails from Bolton Bikes say they know others have successfully used the upgrade on their RadWagons. So, before I install it I was hoping to save some time of someone has figured out the motor settings.....


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[Rjbur007]

I just created an account at Bolton and found:

https://boltonebikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034971792

There's a bit more there, but here is the meat that of the settings comments.

.... Note that some settings may need to be changed for proper operation.  P1 is determined by the number of magnets or poles in the motor as well as the gear reduction.  As the RadWagon is a direct drive motor, use the number 46 for P1.  P2 may also require a change for a correct speed reading.

Some customers have reported a "noise" when apply full power of C5 = 10.  Once again, we have not tested this setup so use caution, or turn the power down slightly to avoid overstressing the stock motor. ...

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[Ryan]

I don't have experience with the Bolton upgrade kits for Rad Power Bikes but I'm excited to hear your thoughts since I have a Wagon as well. Please keep sharing updates. For those members who might not know about this kit it basically provides more amps to the motor for better performance.

[Rjbur007]

I don't have experience with the Bolton upgrade kits for Rad Power Bikes but I'm excited to hear your thoughts since I have a Wagon as well. Please keep sharing updates. For those members who might not know about this kit it basically provides more amps to the motor for better performance.

Will do... I have not yet installed the upgrade.  Honey Do list has priority.  Hope to get to it soon.

1/2 - Still not installed... warmer weather heading our way... good reason to get it installed.

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[RadBiker]

By better performance does this mean faster? Quicker pick up? Or will make your battery last longer? It just hit cold temps here and I can tell the battery goes down much quicker than in the summer.

I don't have experience with the Bolton upgrade kits for Rad Power Bikes but I'm excited to hear your thoughts since I have a Wagon as well. Please keep sharing updates. For those members who might not know about this kit it basically provides more amps to the motor for better performance.

[Rjbur007]

My understanding is that it's a performance boost.  Better response and power on start and power response.  Thus I am expecting to have a much better performing and faster ebike.  With that, there is no free lunch so I am expecting less range from my battery as I'll be asking more from it. 

Now that said, even the top end speed might improve.  But as I've been reading, i need to be careful not to ask too much from the motor as I could damage it or it could start making noise.  So that said, I'll be working with the settings so that I get what I want and nothing more less I damage the motor.  I believe there is one in particular setting I need to slowly increase up to where I'm happy vs simply setting it to max.

"Remember, with great power comes great responsibility." This upgrade opens up a great amount of power with its various settings we never could achieve with the standard display and controller.  So one needs to be responsible in what settings they use less they damage their motor.   

Now one exiting comment on the Bolton Bikes site said that they plan on working on a 1500 watt motor replacement offer as well... everything takes time though ...


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[Rjbur007]

Cold is not a friend to any battery.   Keep it inside between rides and on cold days.  I'm spoiled in a warmer area.  But I'm thinking I would make some kind of insulated cover for my battery and if that wasn't enough, see if I could use a warming device that is not too hot and can easily be recharged and last my ride.... I have no idea but brainstorming probably stupid ideas.... something like:

https://amzn.to/3m0Owgv

Or

https://amzn.to/3pPmTYV

Looks like they have diff shaped ones and it looks like they could get warmer that we might want touching the battery so insulating the battery from direct contact would be a wise idea...

Anyway, as I said, probably a dumb idea, but you get the idea... cold bad, battery needs to stay warm...

But heck, ya probably knew that already. 



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[Ryan]

My understanding is that it's a performance boost.  Better response and power on start and power response.  Thus I am expecting to have a much better performing and faster ebike.  With that, there is no free lunch so I am expecting less range from my battery as I'll be asking more from it. 

Now that said, even the top end speed might improve.  But as I've been reading, i need to be careful not to ask too much from the motor as I could damage it or it could start making noise.  So that said, I'll be working with the settings so that I get what I want and nothing more less I damage the motor.  I believe there is one in particular setting I need to slowly increase up to where I'm happy vs simply setting it to max.

"Remember, with great power comes great responsibility." This upgrade opens up a great amount of power with its various settings we never could achieve with the standard display and controller.  So one needs to be responsible in what settings they use less they damage their motor.   

Now one exiting comment on the Bolton Bikes site said that they plan on working on a 1500 watt motor replacement offer as well... everything takes time though ...


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It's really going to be interesting to see what is available in five years time. The nice thing is that the RadWagon frame is so functional so I could see just continuing to upgrade it over time instead of buying a new model. I can't imagine a 1500 watt motor, but it sounds like fun. In fact one of the reasons I bought a Wagon over building my own e-bike (which would have definitely been faster) is simply because of the frame. Putting a passenger on the back is a blast.

I'm curious to hear what you think of the Bolton upgrade. It's tempting but $200 is also a good chunk towards another Rad model . Now that I've been riding my Wagon in winter I'm really curious about the Rover.

[Rjbur007]

I finally started the install on one of my two RadWagons.

CHALLENGE #1:
===========
Had to cut two screws from original controller to get it out.  Felt like they were put in as self tapping because the resisted coming out for almost there complete length.  I did not see any evidence of lock-tight being used. They are small Phillips head screws and you cannot get a decent screw driver into that area.  They should have been Hex Allen head screws.  I used a small 1/4" Ratchet and a socket I could place a screw driver head into.  Two screws came out and two refused to move and the heads stripped. So I used my Oscillating Saw to cut the heads off and Vice Grips to finally twist the screws out once I had the controller in my hands. 

CHALLENGE #2:
===========
Second challenge is that the new controller is wider and does not fit into the same location between the RadWagon frame tubes in that area.  I have made a template of the area and plan on making a spacer block out of wood for now that I'll paint.  Eventually I'll design a spacer and 3D Print one.

CHALLENGE #3:
===========
Next challenge is that the Pedal Assist Sensor cable coming from the sensor on bike is short and so is the one coming from the new controller. Thus I'll need an extension cable to make that connection.  Looks like all the other cables are fine.  I'm on the hunt for an extension cable now.  I also sent Bolton Bikes an email.  I think I found one on Amazon.

I'll takes pics and post them soon. 

NEXT STEPS:
=========
1) Find and order PAS extension cables

2) Make the spacer block and secure new Control in place.

3) Take pictures


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[Rjbur007]

Time for a few photos.

Here,s the original RAD controller in position:


Here's the screws that need to be removed.


Controller Removed:


Template I made by stretching Painters Tape layered across tubes and the another layer length wise.  Then using a sharp long knife I could follow inside along tubes I ended up with:


New Controller laid in place for a fit check:


I'll be needing an extension a cable for the PAS:



Here's the a few views of the inside of the RAD Controller:



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[Rjbur007]

Here's the sticker I found on the bottom of the RAD Controller with the watts I added using Ohms Law:





Looks like the nominal current is 9 amps, below 500 watts, but can be pushed up to above 800 watts.  That explains why RAD wants us to keep it to about 500 max and only push it higher for short periods. 


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[Rjbur007]

Just ordered two PAS 3 Wire Extension Cables from Bolton Biles:

https://boltonebikes.com/collections/electrical-accessories/products/sondors-lcd-extension-cable?variant=12380729638935

Only really need probably 4-6 " so I'll have to coil up the extra.


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[Ryan]

Really interesting...thanks for the detailed steps. So for the longevity of a stock bike everyone should attempt to keep watts around 500 most of the time. Curious if you've looked at all what the motor is capable of as far as pushing it. Will the controller push more than 750 watts to it?

Do you plan to keep the old controller for now? I have a warrantied rear wheel that eventually I was interested in piecing together a DIY setup (the only issue is that one screw securing the disc was stripped).

[Rjbur007]

Really interesting...thanks for the detailed steps. So for the longevity of a stock bike everyone should attempt to keep watts around 500 most of the time. Curious if you've looked at all what the motor is capable of as far as pushing it. Will the controller push more than 750 watts to it?

There's two places where this is apparent, maybe four if you see the web page from the manufacture of the motor that shows it as a 500watt motor and watch a few of Bolton Bike videos where it seems that motors can be pushed sometimes beyond their rating.

The first hint of a power issue is in the Owners Manual page 19 where it states,

Notice: It is recommended that users pay close attention and ride within the following limitations to ensure the hub motor does not overheat or become damaged from excessive loading.

• Do not climb hills steeper than 15% in grade.
• Pedal to assist the motor when climbing hills and accelerating from a stop.
• Avoid sudden starts and stops.oWhen climbing hills reduce the power output when possible. This can be accomplished by pedaling with the bike while in pedal assist modes 1 or 2.
• Accelerate slowly.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0799/9645/files/2018RadWagonOwnersManualUSA_updated_9-3-19.pdf?8669

Also repeated on their site:

https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002190354-Riding-on-Hilly-Terrain

*** UPDATE ***   THE ABOVE LINK IS NOW DEAD!!!  I should have quoted what it said for prosperity. Now all I could find on their site is:

https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002193913

Why would you not keep it cranked to PAS 5 and full throttle?

I have... and yes the motor wattage on the display sure does climb to above 740 watts, but hell, its a 750 watt motor and Rad is selling it as a 750 watt eBike....  But I only do this for very short periods of time.  I have never pushed it on a big long hill...

Guess what happens when you follow the directions and turn down your PAS to 1-3... ahhh you don't go above the magic 500 watts.

Here's is where Rad states the type of motor the RadWagon has:

https://radpowerbikes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000949274-What-kind-of-motor-does-the-RadWagon-use-

Now I know its possible that the manufacture has made a special version of the motor for RAD, however, it's also possible that the motor is actually their:

http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html

And is rated at 350W/500W as shown on their site and when asked it it could handle 750watts they said sure it can...

Either way, the controller is not designed to push out the power needed to maintain above 500 watts.  It can for short periods, but its "rated current" is 9A or 432 watts cruising.

The second source I cannot seem to find online.  I'll have to search my emails.  But I seems to remember their responding to one of my emails where I sent them info on a trail I was hoping to take my bike on that starts with a rather steep 2.5 mile long uphill.  Their response was the same as stated above with the one addition to try and keep the power down to 500 watts or less on the climb.

[Rjbur007]

So it's finally installed.  Received the extension cables for the Pedal Assist Sensor so decided to start with my bike before tackling my wife's...

After thinking a little more about how to install the controller I decided it's probably not a good idea to install it on a block of wood as that would not maximize are flow and cooling.  So I was thinking about standoffs and maybe a platform that I cut the center out of..... then I found the brackets below at work and tried these first and they seem to work.



The controller sits nicely on top.  My only concern is vibration, so I'll have to keep an eye on it and possibly use Loctite.



These shots show some of the cable management.  You can see how I coiled up the extra PAS cable.




The display was a straight forward replacement.  Have to say the quality of the mount doesn't seem to be the same of the original, but it works fine.



More on settings next as I need to double check these.

Yea, that means I haven't hit the road yet...


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