Putting new rear rim on radmission

[JYoung707]

Anyone done this before? Im about to order a 27.5 rim but am struggling to find what size spokes the rear rim uses with the hub, what nipples it uses and what tool I need. Lacing it shouldn?t be too bad I imagine

[handlebar]

My Radmission OEM 27.5" rear wheel appears to have 225mm spokes. I've bought spokes for my Radrunner and didn't know there were different kinds of nipples.

[JYoung707]

My Radmission OEM 27.5" rear wheel appears to have 225mm spokes. I've bought spokes for my Radrunner and didn't know there were different kinds of nipples.

What gauge/thickness? Also what size nipple? I?ve been using the 12 size on my nipple remover, would the correct terminology be size 12 nipples?

[handlebar]

I checked. They're 12-gauge spokes. Spokes normally come with nipples that fit. The mark on your wrench means it's for the nipples used on 12-gauge spokes.

Here's an example:
https://amzn.to/46hiGSp

You make sure they're selling 12-gauge and select your length. 36 pieces sounds right. This selection is shipped from China. You may find a faster choice.

[JYoung707]

I checked. They're 12-gauge spokes. Spokes normally come with nipples that fit. The mark on your wrench means it's for the nipples used on 12-gauge spokes.

Here's an example:
https://amzn.to/46hiGSp

You make sure they're selling 12-gauge and select your length. 36 pieces sounds right. This selection is shipped from China. You may find a faster choice.

I?ve been trying with the old spokes and nipples but the old nipples didn?t fit in the new rim I got so I drilled the holes a bit bigger. It had a 3 cross lacing pattern and I?m having a bad time lacing it so far. Heavy hub does not help in the slightest. Next time I try I?m doing it in four sections and may need to drill the holes bigger because they are not going at a steep enough angle for the spokes to line up I think.

Also, the half of the spokes are just a wee bit shorter than the other half. I?m assuming that the shorter ones go on the drive side (with chain) to accommodate free wheel

[JYoung707]

Christ sake I have another problem I just saw. The holes in the rim I bought are off set and alternating from center line, but the nipple holes on the original radmission rim are center line all around.

This complicates issues further because I?m not sure how this affects lacing with the original spokes. I suppose I need to find 36 hole 27.5 rim with center line holes that fit  12 gauge wire/nipples.

[handlebar]

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/84086/wheelbuilding-a-rim-with-offset-holes-how-to-lace

That was new to me, so I looked it up. It says there are two kinds of nipples. The offset can reduce spoke flexing if  you have standard nipples. If you have special nipples with hemispherical heads, you can have the spokes cross the centerline to better hold the rim straight.

[JYoung707]

I went ahead and ordered new 215 mm spokes because I plan on doing the single cross lacing to attach the hub on the new rim. Originally the radmission has three cross lacing for the spokes which is a pain because the nipples have to be at a pretty severe angle to make it work. Through my research I?ve learned single cross will do but I needed shorter spokes for it. Used an online spoke calculator to determine the length needs to be roughly 215 mm. I will update once the spokes arrive.

Also it?s worth noting the hub is shifted off center towards drive side of bike. You can see this when you place hub on axle without rim on, and also measuring it.  Theoretically you?d need longer spokes on the drive side according to the calculator but it?s a pretty small difference, even with the offset holes in the rim. OEM spokes have a difference of like 2 mm between the spokes on each side though. Bigger difference than needed according to calculator. I?m pretty sure I measured everything right.

[handlebar]

I didn't know about single-cross lacing, so I found this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OialWggZJo

He says the benefit is less spoke breakage. Sure enough, on the back wheel of my Radmission, the spokes bend at the nipples. I didn't see that bending on my Radrunner. I checked, and now I see why. It has single-cross lacing.

Another way to avoid bending spokes would be nipples with hemispherical heads, I think. I wonder if they are widely available.

[JYoung707]

I didn't know about single-cross lacing, so I found this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OialWggZJo

He says the benefit is less spoke breakage. Sure enough, on the back wheel of my Radmission, the spokes bend at the nipples. I didn't see that bending on my Radrunner. I checked, and now I see why. It has single-cross lacing.

Another way to avoid bending spokes would be nipples with hemispherical heads, I think. I wonder if they are widely available.

So these nipples you buy separate are more like a globe/ball type nipple as opposed to flat? That?d be pretty smart to have.

[handlebar]

So these nipples you buy separate are more like a globe/ball type nipple as opposed to flat? That?d be pretty smart to have.

I didn't see any on Amazon.

[JYoung707]

Update:

215 mm spokes did the trick for anyone looking for help. But there were some problems, mostly on my lack of experience with doing this.

The tire is shifted too far towards the drive side now because I didn?t align the rim right. The tire started to rub against frame but I didn?t bother adjusting spokes and let the rubber on tire wear down a bit. However, I had to not only move over the hub with washers on the axle, I also had to adjust derailer and brakes. I took off rear brakes completely and moved the derailer outward with washers to align with hub teeth . Problem is, I broke off derailer stem that attached it to rear axle. I was able to fix it up with lock nut, bolt and washers. Be careful of that.

All in all the bike is up and running now. I should eventually adjust the spokes to try to get it so it?s true to the axle/frame. But to be honest I was so fed up with it I just decided to call it good enough. The rear brake is off for good, oh well. The derailer seems to be holding.

Like I said, 215mm spokes and do single cross lacing. But make sure rim is shifted AWAY from drive side (and thus spokes are effectively longer on drive side) otherwise tire will rub against the frame and brake/derailer won?t align


Also forgot to mention make sure you order reputable spokes/nipples and put oil on the end of spokes and soak with nipples. The cheap spokes and nipples I ordered were giving me problems with cross threading and just not fitting right. The vid I saw on YouTube recommended the lube and I should have listened. That was a major pain, to get the actual spokes to screw in with the nipples.

[handlebar]

Update:

The tire is shifted too far towards the drive side now because I didn?t align the rim right. The tire started to rub against frame but I didn?t bother adjusting spokes and let the rubber on tire wear down a bit. However, I had to not only move over the hub with washers on the axle, I also had to adjust derailer and brakes. I took off rear brakes completely and moved the derailer outward with washers to align with hub teeth . Problem is, I broke off derailer stem that attached it to rear axle. I was able to fix it up with lock nut, bolt and washers. Be careful of that.

All in all the bike is up and running now. I should eventually adjust the spokes to try to get it so it?s true to the axle/frame. But to be honest I was so fed up with it I just decided to call it good enough. The rear brake is off for good, oh well. The derailer seems to be holding.

Like I said, 215mm spokes and do single cross lacing. But make sure rim is shifted AWAY from drive side (and thus spokes are effectively longer on drive side) otherwise tire will rub against the frame and brake/derailer won?t align

My Radrunner came with a few spokes with defective heads that allowed gradual lengthening and eventually broke off. When I finally discovered the problem and replaced those spokes, I had a little runout (not true). Truing was easier than I'd imagined. The spoke wrench is the worst part of working with spokes. It can be tricky to get it on a nipple and clumsy to turn, and I have to stop and think about which direction. You may be better off. If you built the wheel, you can probably remove the band that covers the nipple heads, allowing you to work with a screwdriver.

First, I'd turn the bike upside down and measure how much space I had between the tire and the frame on the side that isn't rubbing. Dividing by 2 would probably tell you how far  you want to move the rim in that direction.

Now, remove the wheel, take off the tire, tube, and band, and put it back on the bike. On my Radmission rear, it looks as if 1mm change in spoke length would move the rim 10 mm to the side. I think the pitch is about 0.4mm, so I'd change spoke lengths 2.5 turns to move the rim 1 cm.

Check the rim's distance from the chain stay and calculate what that distance should be. Depending on how far you want to move the rim, you might start with 1 turn. You need to mark your starting point, maybe with a wrap of tape around the rim. Then with a screwdriver, loosen each nipple pulling toward the drive side, 1 turn. Then go around tightening each nipple pulling away from the drive side, 1 turn. Then go around making small adjustments on any that sound too taut or too loose.

Check the rim's distance from the chain stay and decide if you need to move it more.

When my wheel was out of true, it was a matter of moving one sector of the rim a couple of mm. I marked the section of rim, slightly loosened spokes on one side, took up the slack on the other side, and checked the runout again. I ended up checking by sound to be sure the spokes were reasonably tight all the way around.