Radwagon Controller and Display Upgrade

[Rjbur007]

This last weekend I took it out for a test drive after the upgrade.  I started with the max power limited and then worked my way up to max power.

I still need to redo the testing, but here are my first observations. 

The color display looks great!   The pedal assist seems more responsive and I can control how much power is available via the settings.

The limiting factor now seems to be the motor and you have to be careful not to push it as I assume it will fail if pushed too hard.

The motor will NOT go faster with the more power you make available to it. It hits a wall of no return and all that seems to happen is that battery life takes a dive.

My test run was up my street which has a slight incline and a steeper one at the end. I would ride up and then back down trying the brake regenerative feature.  Once in a while taking a trip around the block.

Again, if the motor is the one I provided the link for before, then it is obviously the limiting factor.  At one point the display reported 800 to up to 1000 watts of power and I did not stay there long. NO the bike did NOT take off.

I was easily able to maintain 23 MPH and on the uphill pulling more power I could comfortably reach 16-18 MPH but that was for a short time and I was helping with a bit of pedaling.  But not heavy pedaling.

I need to adjust the settings to what I believe is reasonable for the motor and I'll probably keep the max power down to about the 750 watts RAD has rated the bike for.   Then I'll take it out for a longer ride.

Also, I need to study the settings for the battery life as that seem to not work at all like I expected.   It reported voltage and the bars did not really diminish as expected.  I started with a reported voltage above 50.  I believe it was about 52 volts.  I did not top off the battery before the test drive. I have my DVM ready to take some measurements next time.

My concern right now is my range was really poor/bad.  I believe this had to do with my pushing as much power as I could as many times as I did on a upward slope most of the time.  When I reset the parameters and check the fuel gauge settings, I'll go for a longer ride and take a spare battery with me.

Overall, I see great potential and control I never had with this controller.  I see my next upgrade being that 1500 watt motor they will hopefully come out with at Bolton Bikes and then maybe build higher voltage packs out of the tooo many Rad Battery packs I have. 

More to come after I adjust parameters and go for that longer ride.


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[Ryan]

Very interesting, thanks for reporting back.

[Dennis Watkins]

I just installed my kit a few days ago. Curious if you figured out what settings you liked. Do you feel like you have dialed it in yet? Still trying to get my P2 correct for proper speed. 4/5/6 do not work. Still need to test out the others. Glad I found your post. Looking forward to your reply.

[Rjbur007]

I just installed my kit a few days ago. Curious if you figured out what settings you liked. Do you feel like you have dialed it in yet? Still trying to get my P2 correct for proper speed. 4/5/6 do not work. Still need to test out the others. Glad I found your post. Looking forward to your reply.

I apologize to all for taking so long to update this post as I do not ride as often as I'd like.

Took the RadWagon out one time and proceeded to cause one of my batteries to shut down as I was pulling alot of power up a hill and I think I caused the heat to go to high in the battery or possibly I drew it down below the cutoff voltage.  Once I was able to pull over, I swapped the battery and was back up and running.  I checked the other once home and the fuses were fine, the voltage was fine, for a used battery, and it charged fine...

The cause was that the controller in PAS-5 was still trying to allow the motor to pull 900-1000 watts and the RadWagon motor does nothing with this other than drain your battery.

Thus I decided I needed to adjyst the C5 setting to possibly 05 or 04.  05 will allow (Max Current / 1.33) and 04 will allow (Max Current / 1.5).

Again, rememebr, these direct drive motors do NOT have a lot of torque and they are reall 500 watt motors or a little less.  Allowing them to draw more power... you reach a wall that only drains you battery and can damage your motor.

So here is what I have now as settings:

LIM: 72 km/h --- LOL  I wish... just want to see what is possible with the &^$%^#*&^ of a motor on these bikes
DIM: 26"
UNT: 3
P1: 46
P2: 5
P3: 1
P4: 0
P5: 15
C1: 3
C2: 0
C3: 1
C4: 0
C5: 06
C6: 3
C7: 1
C8: 0
C9: 0
C10: N
C11: 0
C12: 4
C13: 1
C14: 1

L1: 0
L2: 0
L3: 1
L4: 5

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE "L" SETTINGS DO SO I LEFT THEM AS THEY WERE FROM BOLTON BIKES.  If anyone knows, please share.

Again, last ride out in PAS-5 the RadWagon was still trying to pull up to 1000 watts so I will be adjusting C5: to probably 04 to see what it does. 

I also need to study the remaining setting and see what else might help, but for now, I do not want to prematurely drain my batteries and/or damage my motor.

Hope this helps...

Rich

[Ryan]

Hey Rich, sounds like like you need a RadWagon 4 with the Bafang geared hub motor

Thanks for continuing to share, very interesting info.

[Rjbur007]

Hey Rich, sounds like like you need a RadWagon 4 with the Bafang geared hub motor

Thanks for continuing to share, very interesting info.

Actually what I want is the rumored RadWagon motor / wheel upgrade from Bolton.  I think he was talking about a 1000 or 1500 watt motor.   And when Bolton stayed the power we know it's the true power of his motors.  I have a controller, now I just need a motor. 

But I have to admit, those next gen RadWagons look really nice. 


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[Dennis Watkins]

Hmm... it's interesting your P2 is 5 for proper speed and I found mine to be 1 to be correct. I think C5 diff needs adjusted. I seem to be running into some kind of limiter other than P1 and it might be associated with P5. With stock, I was able to go above 25 mph once I increase the min speed to 40. However, with P1 set to max, my speeds limits to 21-22 and this is at less than 400 watts. I thought it was my battery and when fully charged I am getting the same results. I'll check out your other settings and test again tomorrow. With this now being the warm season, it will give us more chances to play with the settings. Also, did you have any luck getting the stock controller off? I actually still haven't taken mine off. I installed the new controller below the stock on and secured with zip ties. Looks odd but works just fine. Also installing it here doesn't require the extender. At some point, I want to take off the old one and use brackets like I believe you are using. Or it might have been someone else. Just need to figure out where to get them. I'll figure it out out of season. Right now, I just want to enjoy the ride.

[Dennis Watkins]

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE "L" SETTINGS DO SO I LEFT THEM AS THEY WERE FROM BOLTON BIKES.  If anyone knows, please share.



Here is the full manual including the L settings. Might help you also dig deeper into settings.

http://www.szktdz.com/upload/file/20180814/20180814091428_61636.pdf

[Rjbur007]

Hmm... it's interesting your P2 is 5 for proper speed and I found mine to be 1 to be correct. I think C5 diff needs adjusted. I seem to be running into some kind of limiter other than P1 and it might be associated with P5. With stock, I was able to go above 25 mph once I increase the min speed to 40. However, with P1 set to max, my speeds limits to 21-22 and this is at less than 400 watts. I thought it was my battery and when fully charged I am getting the same results. I'll check out your other settings and test again tomorrow. With this now being the warm season, it will give us more chances to play with the settings. Also, did you have any luck getting the stock controller off? I actually still haven't taken mine off. I installed the new controller below the stock on and secured with zip ties. Looks odd but works just fine. Also installing it here doesn't require the extender. At some point, I want to take off the old one and use brackets like I believe you are using. Or it might have been someone else. Just need to figure out where to get them. I'll figure it out out of season. Right now, I just want to enjoy the ride.

Wait, are you saying that you were able to go faster by reducing the max speed setting?  That is indeed strange.  As far as speed accuracy.  I use app "Ride with GPS" and the MPH matches pretty close as well as total ride miles compared to controllers trip mileage.

Scroll back and you'll see my pics.  I removed the stock controller and used brackets to raise up the installation point so it's on top of tubes.  I was lucky to find the brackets at work.  I'll see if I can find the drawing for them.  Nothing too special but I believe one hole had a pressed nut installed in it.

The reported watts on PAS 4 seem reasonable but when I go to PAS 5 on a hill it reports up to 1000watts and that's not good for motor or battery.  So I do indeed need to limit total power a bit more.

Thanks for link to Manual.  I'll take a look...

I definitely want to upgrade the motor next.  Need more torque and hill climbing power.

Got to run for now. 


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[Dennis Watkins]

Sorry. Decreasing max speed didn't make me go faster. Using the stock controller allowed me to go faster. This is why I think there is a setting or two wrong to allow the additional speed. I can't hit 25 mph on the new controller and was able to on stock. I am going to play a bit with some settings today to see if anything changes. Below is, most likely,  the link to the motor being used. I suspect there is some kind of amp limiter in the device. 35x48=1680 watts which I defy haven't seen. I am talking about adjustment of the C5 value here. This current limiter is prob the hard limit you are talking about before you are just trying to push more but instead just wasting battery power. Here's what I think is going on. When C5 is set too high, the controller is displaying higher watts and trying to send more power to the motor but is being limited by the current limiter in the motor. Power is voltage x current. I question if the voltage supplied to the motor is max avail and wonder if it current applied could be exceeded before the max power is reached if C5 is too high. Maybe an example would help....750 watts could be 15 amp x 48 volts. Or could be say, 16 amps x 45 volts. Or 18.75 amps x 40 volts. All of these equal 750 watts. However, say, the motor has a current limiter of say 15 amps., then in the last case, the controller is trying to push 750 watts, but being current limited to 15 and the motor is really only pushing 600 watts when it could push more. So adjusting C5 to a lower value could prioritize the controller to push more voltage to the motor vs current and perhaps actually giving more overall power... Just a thought.



http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html

[Dennis Watkins]

Ok. C5 Deff impacts the max power the DD motor will put out. Oddly, going up in C5 values does not increase the max wattage. However, C5 00,01,02 will in the 1400's watts whereas C5 10 does not. (At least for me). Give it a try and let me know your results. Obviously it doesn't stay at this power nor would you want it to however it does seem to make it more zippy. Wife called me in so I guess that is all for now.

[Rjbur007]

Ok. C5 Deff impacts the max power the DD motor will put out. Oddly, going up in C5 values does not increase the max wattage. However, C5 00,01,02 will in the 1400’s watts whereas C5 10 does not. (At least for me). Give it a try and let me know your results. Obviously it doesn’t stay at this power nor would you want it to however it does seem to make it more zippy. Wife called me in so I guess that is all for now.

According to the manual I have, C5 settings are... SEE ATTACHED as I cannot seem to figure out how to insert an image.  was much easier on iPhone, now on computer...

C5 settings are for controlling the maximum operating current.

C5 Setting
===================
00 --> 02  UNDEFINED
03 = Max Current Value / 2.00
04 = Max Current Value / 1.50
05 = Max Current Value / 1.33
06 = Max Current Value / 1.25
07 = Max Current Value / 1.20
08 = Max Current Value / 1.15
09 = Max Current Value / 1.10
10 = Max Current Value

Thus lowering the value should limit the max current to motor with 03 being the lowest valid value.

[Rjbur007]

Also, if you look back at the previous post I have a link to the motor in the 2018:

http://www.syimotor.com/productDe_5.html

and I have information on the factory controller and OHMS law etc..

https://www.radowners.com/index.php/topic,138.msg400.html#msg400

The problem with the factory motor seems to be that according to the new controller, we can allow it to pull as much power as it wants.  I do not believe there are any current limiters in the motor and that is why we can burn it out.  That is wht asfter it has exceed its efficiency point of no return it will such down the battery as the controller allows it to draw more current that it can't efficiently convert into usable energy and will eventually damage the motor.  That is why I see the controller allowing the motor to draw up to 1000 watts, but I do not see any power / speed benefits really above say 700 watts... I'll have to pay attention... but I do hear the motor trying hard to use all that current.

So I have tried C5=05 and next I will try 04.

But I agree with your assessment that there must be some other setting that is not right and limiting or max speed.  Possibly my weight as I'm about 210 lbs and I do not ever remember, even with stock controller, being able to use max throttle on a flat road and reaching 25 MPH.  I think now I can reach between 21 to 23 MPH.

[Dennis Watkins]

Ok. C5 Deff impacts the max power the DD motor will put out. Oddly, going up in C5 values does not increase the max wattage. However, C5 00,01,02 will in the 1400's watts whereas C5 10 does not. (At least for me). Give it a try and let me know your results. Obviously it doesn't stay at this power nor would you want it to however it does seem to make it more zippy. Wife called me in so I guess that is all for now.

According to the manual I have, C5 settings are... SEE ATTACHED as I cannot seem to figure out how to insert an image.  was much easier on iPhone, now on computer...

C5 settings are for controlling the maximum operating current.

C5 Setting
===================
00 --> 02  UNDEFINED
03 = Max Current Value / 2.00
04 = Max Current Value / 1.50
05 = Max Current Value / 1.33
06 = Max Current Value / 1.25
07 = Max Current Value / 1.20
08 = Max Current Value / 1.15
09 = Max Current Value / 1.10
10 = Max Current Value

Thus lowering the value should limit the max current to motor with 03 being the lowest valid value.

C5 00-02 settings are only undefined in the non color controller. The Bolton ebike guy even says this in his video. But doesn't go over them for the color version. Attached are the defined values... whatever the heck they mean. I do get more power when using below 03 compared to 10 which is max power. Wish we knew what made it ride faster. I can ride 20 mph and only use 300 watts. So it should deff be able to go faster.  I deff think using higher power will decrease the life of the motor which I am ok with. Hopefully Bolton Ebikes will have the motor upgrade you mentioned. When C5 is set to 00-02, it will get to 1470 watts but only briefly, and the quickly declines.

I don't think it's your weight holding back your max mph since I am maxing out the bike and getting the same.

[Rjbur007]

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE "L" SETTINGS DO SO I LEFT THEM AS THEY WERE FROM BOLTON BIKES.  If anyone knows, please share.



Here is the full manual including the L settings. Might help you also dig deeper into settings.

http://www.szktdz.com/upload/file/20180814/20180814091428_61636.pdf

Just checked again...I didn't find the "L" settings.  The manual stops after the "C".  Did I miss something?


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