RadMini motor conversion

[Altema]

JoseM beat me to it 😁, but I'm posting this as a conversion because it required some changes to the bike. The setup just before this was a Phaserunner controller, Tesla batteries, and a 750 watt "upgrade" motor. The bike was at the place where I was happy with the performance, control, and range. So what was the problem? The motor was the weak link in the system. The batteries are great, the controller will handle up to 7000 watts, but the motor itself was at it's limit and I had to be careful. The new motor is a Bafang RM C062.1000.D 06, and produces more torque at the same power levels, without stressing itself.

There were two major things to overcome. One is that the motor casing was different, which required the wheel be disassembled and re-laced. The second is that, in my case, the connector was different. They do have the Julet connector available (same as Rad uses), but mine has the L1019 connector which screws together. I could have cut up my custom harness, but decided to just order the part which made it ALMOST plug and play 😂

The bigger deal was getting the new motor casing laced into the wheel, and after having some difficulty fitting it into my schedule, I decided to do it myself.

I took measurements after the tire was off, and recorded the spacing of the brake rotor on one side, and the inside of the spoke flange on the other. I loosened the spokes in steps to prevent the rim from being pulled out of round, then removed the spoke in pairs (photo 1) and my assistant put them on the new motor. Then came putting the spokes back onto the rim, and once I recognized the over/under pattern, it was pretty easy. I installed the spoke nipples with two threads showing on each spoke, then systematically began tightening them up. After that I put the brake rotor back on (photo 2), then mounted the wheel on the upside-down bike to "true" the wheel. With a cable tie on the fender brace, I cut the cable tie so it was almost touching the rim (photo 3). First came centering the wheel vertically in relationship to the axle centerline (I don't want to be bouncing up and down!), then making sure the rim is "round". The last step is adjusting for any left to right variations, and once that was done, I re-installed the rim liner, tire, Tannus Armour liner, and the tube. When I mounted the wheel on the bike for the final time, I used an additional torque washer on the outside of the left, and gently applied rotational pressure to the axle when tightening the nuts, in the direction the axle would naturally go when the motor torque is applied. If anyone would like a more detailed description of why I did this, let me know.

For the electrical side (and this is different because of the Phaserunner), I took off the old motor connections, and installed the new section between the controller and motor which consists of the three phase wires, the hall sensor wires, and connections for speed and motor temperature. The motor cable comes out of the left side instead of the right, and goes between the frame and the brake rotor (photo 4), so you'll need a cable tie to keep the rotor from damaging it. My cable had a big unprotected section where the wires go to the three different connectors, so I had to be creative with the shrink tubing to protect it. With the wiring done, you have to program the Phaserunner for the new motor. This motor is oriented the opposite way from the Rad and Bolton motors (to allow the cable on the other side), but there's a setting to handle that. I loaded the parameters for the "Bafang G60 Fat" motor into the Phaserunner setup program on my laptop, then ran "Autotune" before making any other adjustments.

On the first test ride with the same power levels as the old motor, the extra torque was obvious. Even in class 2 economy mode, the bike felt perky and satisfying. I could feel it in class 3 and unlimited modes as well. So, I'm a happy camper, and I don't have to worry about pushing the motor too hard to get the results. Again, let me know if you have any questions!

[JimInPT]

Glad this worked out for you, but I think I like your other thread about "which motor is more powerful" wherein you retained the stock rear motor/wheel setup - much easier, with just a controller/display swap.

[Altema]

Glad this worked out for you, but I think I like your other thread about "which motor is more powerful" wherein you retained the stock rear motor/wheel setup - much easier, with just a controller/display swap.

The controller and display swap is a piece of cake, and delivers a huge power gain. The motor on the right in that other thread, actually IS this motor, but the stock Rad motor is similar in appearance.

[Sirch]

JoseM beat me to it 😁, but I'm posting this as a conversion because it required some changes to the bike. The setup just before this was a Phaserunner controller, Tesla batteries, and a 750 watt "upgrade" motor. The bike was at the place where I was happy with the performance, control, and range. So what was the problem? The motor was the weak link in the system. The batteries are great, the controller will handle up to 7000 watts, but the motor itself was at it's limit and I had to be careful. The new motor is a Bafang RM C062.1000.D 06, and produces more torque at the same power levels, without stressing itself.

There were two major things to overcome. One is that the motor casing was different, which required the wheel be disassembled and re-laced. The second is that, in my case, the connector was different. They do have the Julet connector available (same as Rad uses), but mine has the L1019 connector which screws together. I could have cut up my custom harness, but decided to just order the part which made it ALMOST plug and play 😂

The bigger deal was getting the new motor casing laced into the wheel, and after having some difficulty fitting it into my schedule, I decided to do it myself.

I took measurements after the tire was off, and recorded the spacing of the brake rotor on one side, and the inside of the spoke flange on the other. I loosened the spokes in steps to prevent the rim from being pulled out of round, then removed the spoke in pairs (photo 1) and my assistant put them on the new motor. Then came putting the spokes back onto the rim, and once I recognized the over/under pattern, it was pretty easy. I installed the spoke nipples with two threads showing on each spoke, then systematically began tightening them up. After that I put the brake rotor back on (photo 2), then mounted the wheel on the upside-down bike to "true" the wheel. With a cable tie on the fender brace, I cut the cable tie so it was almost touching the rim (photo 3). First came centering the wheel vertically in relationship to the axle centerline (I don't want to be bouncing up and down!), then making sure the rim is "round". The last step is adjusting for any left to right variations, and once that was done, I re-installed the rim liner, tire, Tannus Armour liner, and the tube. When I mounted the wheel on the bike for the final time, I used an additional torque washer on the outside of the left, and gently applied rotational pressure to the axle when tightening the nuts, in the direction the axle would naturally go when the motor torque is applied. If anyone would like a more detailed description of why I did this, let me know.

For the electrical side (and this is different because of the Phaserunner), I took off the old motor connections, and installed the new section between the controller and motor which consists of the three phase wires, the hall sensor wires, and connections for speed and motor temperature. The motor cable comes out of the left side instead of the right, and goes between the frame and the brake rotor (photo 4), so you'll need a cable tie to keep the rotor from damaging it. My cable had a big unprotected section where the wires go to the three different connectors, so I had to be creative with the shrink tubing to protect it. With the wiring done, you have to program the Phaserunner for the new motor. This motor is oriented the opposite way from the Rad and Bolton motors (to allow the cable on the other side), but there's a setting to handle that. I loaded the parameters for the "Bafang G60 Fat" motor into the Phaserunner setup program on my laptop, then ran "Autotune" before making any other adjustments.

On the first test ride with the same power levels as the old motor, the extra torque was obvious. Even in class 2 economy mode, the bike felt perky and satisfying. I could feel it in class 3 and unlimited modes as well. So, I'm a happy camper, and I don't have to worry about pushing the motor too hard to get the results. Again, let me know if you have any questions!

Thank you for this rundown. I've been exploring the motor upgrade options now that I'm happy with my 35A controller and all the step-by-step tutorial videos and such are geared toward RadRover.  I'm realizing that I'll either have to find a 1000w motor pre-laced with a 20" rim or do the lacing myself (which feels daunting since I've never really messed with spokes) since the chatter on "drop-in" upgrades for the RadRunner Plus are either not compatible since they spin the wrong direction or the casing is different.

I've been debating on just reaching out to the moped-style performance ebikes like Ariel Rider/Juiced/Super73 that use a more powerful motor (1000w-1500w) and 20" rim to see if they will just sell me one. I'm doubting they would with inventory shortages and costs.

Trying to make an informed choice so this helps, thanks!

[JTK77]

JoseM beat me to it 😁, but I'm posting this as a conversion because it required some changes to the bike. The setup just before this was a Phaserunner controller, Tesla batteries, and a 750 watt "upgrade" motor. The bike was at the place where I was happy with the performance, control, and range. So what was the problem? The motor was the weak link in the system. The batteries are great, the controller will handle up to 7000 watts, but the motor itself was at it's limit and I had to be careful. The new motor is a Bafang RM C062.1000.D 06, and produces more torque at the same power levels, without stressing itself.

There were two major things to overcome. One is that the motor casing was different, which required the wheel be disassembled and re-laced. The second is that, in my case, the connector was different. They do have the Julet connector available (same as Rad uses), but mine has the L1019 connector which screws together. I could have cut up my custom harness, but decided to just order the part which made it ALMOST plug and play 😂

The bigger deal was getting the new motor casing laced into the wheel, and after having some difficulty fitting it into my schedule, I decided to do it myself.

I took measurements after the tire was off, and recorded the spacing of the brake rotor on one side, and the inside of the spoke flange on the other. I loosened the spokes in steps to prevent the rim from being pulled out of round, then removed the spoke in pairs (photo 1) and my assistant put them on the new motor. Then came putting the spokes back onto the rim, and once I recognized the over/under pattern, it was pretty easy. I installed the spoke nipples with two threads showing on each spoke, then systematically began tightening them up. After that I put the brake rotor back on (photo 2), then mounted the wheel on the upside-down bike to "true" the wheel. With a cable tie on the fender brace, I cut the cable tie so it was almost touching the rim (photo 3). First came centering the wheel vertically in relationship to the axle centerline (I don't want to be bouncing up and down!), then making sure the rim is "round". The last step is adjusting for any left to right variations, and once that was done, I re-installed the rim liner, tire, Tannus Armour liner, and the tube. When I mounted the wheel on the bike for the final time, I used an additional torque washer on the outside of the left, and gently applied rotational pressure to the axle when tightening the nuts, in the direction the axle would naturally go when the motor torque is applied. If anyone would like a more detailed description of why I did this, let me know.

For the electrical side (and this is different because of the Phaserunner), I took off the old motor connections, and installed the new section between the controller and motor which consists of the three phase wires, the hall sensor wires, and connections for speed and motor temperature. The motor cable comes out of the left side instead of the right, and goes between the frame and the brake rotor (photo 4), so you'll need a cable tie to keep the rotor from damaging it. My cable had a big unprotected section where the wires go to the three different connectors, so I had to be creative with the shrink tubing to protect it. With the wiring done, you have to program the Phaserunner for the new motor. This motor is oriented the opposite way from the Rad and Bolton motors (to allow the cable on the other side), but there's a setting to handle that. I loaded the parameters for the "Bafang G60 Fat" motor into the Phaserunner setup program on my laptop, then ran "Autotune" before making any other adjustments.

On the first test ride with the same power levels as the old motor, the extra torque was obvious. Even in class 2 economy mode, the bike felt perky and satisfying. I could feel it in class 3 and unlimited modes as well. So, I'm a happy camper, and I don't have to worry about pushing the motor too hard to get the results. Again, let me know if you have any questions!

Good Job 👍

[reggy]

Have a radmini4 and just looking at upgrades. I'd like to start with the popular 35 amp controller from boltonBikes. In the future if I'd like to upgrade to the 1000 watt motor, is the 35 amp controller compatible?

Here is the controller:
https://boltonebikes.com/products/radpowerkit?_pos=3&_sid=e7b00b42e&_ss=r

[reggy]

How is the performance of the 1000 watt? I'd be going from 500 to 1000 if I upgrade.

Is the 1000 watt motor quitter? I'd really like a quiet ebike, but don't know if that's possible.

[Altema]

You can email Bolton Bikes (Now called Area 13 Bikes), and ask if the controller is compatible with Bafang motor model number RM G062.1000.D 06. I fit is compatible, the Bolton controller will need the motor connector replaced with an L10 connector on the left side of the bike, and you may need to adjust some of the controller settings like the number of speed sensor magnets. The motor will also need to be laced into the wheel because the motor casing is different, and the spokes attach to the casing.

Regarding motor noise, it is a little louder than the original motor, and the Bolton controller will make it louder because it does not use a smooth electrical waveform like the Rad controller. Some people may not notice any difference in noise, but I'm a sound engineer with sensitive ears.

For performance, the 1000 watt motor is awesome. This past weekend I had a group ride which turned out to be mostly gas powered moped and scooters, and they could not keep up with the Rad, especially climbing steep hills on the way to a scenic overlook.

[JTK77]

You can email Bolton Bikes (Now called Area 13 Bikes), and ask if the controller is compatible with Bafang motor model number RM G062.1000.D 06. I fit is compatible, the Bolton controller will need the motor connector replaced with an L10 connector on the left side of the bike, and you may need to adjust some of the controller settings like the number of speed sensor magnets. The motor will also need to be laced into the wheel because the motor casing is different, and the spokes attach to the casing.

Regarding motor noise, it is a little louder than the original motor, and the Bolton controller will make it louder because it does not use a smooth electrical waveform like the Rad controller. Some people may not notice any difference in noise, but I'm a sound engineer with sensitive ears.

For performance, the 1000 watt motor is awesome. This past weekend I had a group ride which turned out to be mostly gas powered moped and scooters, and they could not keep up with the Rad, especially climbing steep hills on the way to a scenic overlook.

Motor temperature sensor comes handy with this level of power. Even with vented motor the temperature rises quite fast
I'm now running the motor 130+ amps (phase) at 60+v.. The bike feels bit like small dirt bike when throttling as the front lightens 
Also proper torque arms are a must. I'm using one on each side.

[Altema]

You can email Bolton Bikes (Now called Area 13 Bikes), and ask if the controller is compatible with Bafang motor model number RM G062.1000.D 06. I fit is compatible, the Bolton controller will need the motor connector replaced with an L10 connector on the left side of the bike, and you may need to adjust some of the controller settings like the number of speed sensor magnets. The motor will also need to be laced into the wheel because the motor casing is different, and the spokes attach to the casing.

Regarding motor noise, it is a little louder than the original motor, and the Bolton controller will make it louder because it does not use a smooth electrical waveform like the Rad controller. Some people may not notice any difference in noise, but I'm a sound engineer with sensitive ears.

For performance, the 1000 watt motor is awesome. This past weekend I had a group ride which turned out to be mostly gas powered moped and scooters, and they could not keep up with the Rad, especially climbing steep hills on the way to a scenic overlook.

Motor temperature sensor comes handy with this level of power. Even with vented motor the temperature rises quite fast
I'm now running the motor 130+ amps (phase) at 60+v.. The bike feels bit like small dirt bike when throttling as the front lightens 
Also proper torque arms are a must. I'm using one on each side.

The front becoming light is why I dialed the power down a bit. The climb to the lookout summit had steep grades and hairpin turns that were wet with pine needles. Not a good time for the front to slip out!

[Radio Runner]

Altema,

So the Bolton controller is modified sine wave and the Rad is pure sine wave? If so I would defiantly notice, that would drive me nuts. Pure sine is so nice. Modified sine is audibly chunky.

[Eric7]

Thank you for the report. It is very informative and I have so many questions.

1.  (Never Mind.  I see now that the modules are $1389 + shipping and I need at least 2, this is totally beyond my budget.) I have a question about your previous build. You mentioned Tesla batteries.  Can you elaborate on that?  Is it a good price or a good deal?  How many cells did you use?

2.  Did you use a truing jig with the wheel when you build the wheel?  Are there services out there that would build a wheel for us less talented people?

3.  Do you think you can attach a front geared hub to a Rad (I own the Rad Mini ST2).   It would be nice to put a throttle only front hub on my Rad and use it when I need an extra boost.

[JimInPT]

3.  Do you think you can attach a front geared hub to a Rad (I own the Rad Mini ST2).   It would be nice to put a throttle only front hub on my Rad and use it when I need an extra boost.

Be careful about that thought, and check out this vid from CitizenCycle:  https://youtu.be/uPPMoGTySGI - he tore the (aftermarket) front fork mounts right off his Rover when trying it.  He has since created a front-wheel-drive setup that works and now has a fire-breathing monster that is a "Rover" pretty much just in the frame only.

[JTK77]

You can email Bolton Bikes (Now called Area 13 Bikes), and ask if the controller is compatible with Bafang motor model number RM G062.1000.D 06. I fit is compatible, the Bolton controller will need the motor connector replaced with an L10 connector on the left side of the bike, and you may need to adjust some of the controller settings like the number of speed sensor magnets. The motor will also need to be laced into the wheel because the motor casing is different, and the spokes attach to the casing.

Regarding motor noise, it is a little louder than the original motor, and the Bolton controller will make it louder because it does not use a smooth electrical waveform like the Rad controller. Some people may not notice any difference in noise, but I'm a sound engineer with sensitive ears.

For performance, the 1000 watt motor is awesome. This past weekend I had a group ride which turned out to be mostly gas powered moped and scooters, and they could not keep up with the Rad, especially climbing steep hills on the way to a scenic overlook.

Motor temperature sensor comes handy with this level of power. Even with vented motor the temperature rises quite fast
I'm now running the motor 130+ amps (phase) at 60+v.. The bike feels bit like small dirt bike when throttling as the front lightens 
Also proper torque arms are a must. I'm using one on each side.

The front becoming light is why I dialed the power down a bit. The climb to the lookout summit had steep grades and hairpin turns that were wet with pine needles. Not a good time for the front to slip out!

I'm just loving it at times 
Mostly cruising on pas 1 -2 though.

[Eric7]

Be careful about that thought, and check out this vid from CitizenCycle:  https://youtu.be/uPPMoGTySGI - he tore the (aftermarket) front fork mounts right off his Rover when trying it.  He has since created a front-wheel-drive setup that works and now has a fire-breathing monster that is a "Rover" pretty much just in the frame only.

Thank you for the info.  I have been in enough bicycle accidents and I really don't want another one.  Thanks again - much appreciated.