Thinking of Buying a RadRunner Plus... Existing/Previous Owners: Input Please?

[Jay-Ryan]

Hey everybody, let me introduce myself. I'm Jay Ryan. And I'm thinking of purchasing a RadRunner through the Canadian RadPower Bikes site..

It's been about 17 years since I last biked, and I had a mountain bike at the time.  Back then, the mountain bike was actually my main form of transportation. I needed to get somewhere, I needed to get there quick. And my 24 Speed Trek was an awesome vehicle for that.

Life changed somewhat in that amount of time and I went from a bicycle to two cars. And now we're at a point that the kids are grown up, I no longer need the second vehicle, and the bike won't be for going somewhere so much as just getting out, breathing fresh air and getting into better shape.

I'm not sure exactly what kind of bike I need, but I really like the style and mechanical features of the rad runner plus. I like the option of the gears, as well as either pedaling or not pedaling as it were.  It seems it can be easily customized both esthetically as well as electronically/mechanically.

When I'm going around to the bike shops and seeing what they have in stock, of course no RadPower bikes , but I look at many other we'll say similar styles. And of course, Canadian brands are different than the American brands, so we don't have Juiced, Super73, or Himiway. But we have something similar, probably coming from the same Chinese factory as far as the frames and running gear go.

When I mentioned Rad power bikes. They kind of cringe And tell me that ordering a direct to consumer bike Is not a good idea.  On face value, it would appear that their opinion is that getting service will be harder and parts nearly impossible.

Although it sounds valid, my question to all you folks would be... Would their warnings be valid? Or is it actually that they just want to sell me their bike?  Or a little of column A little column B?

[JimInPT]

This is purely my personal opinion of course, but I've never seen any reason to buy a Runner instead of a Mini StepThru.  The Mini gives you 7 speeds, a front suspension, fenders and a folding option.  Unless you really need the frame design or a specific accessory of the Runner for some reason, why pay the same (quite a bit more, in the case of the Runner Plus) and get a lot less?  Those extra gears would also help a bit with the Canadian power-restriction oppression when climbing hills, although you might be able to add a Bolton controller/display upgrade.

I'd be interested to hear from Runner owners who considered a MiniST as well and why the Runner is preferable; maybe I'm missing something significant.

Here's my tarted-up choice from last March after considering the Runners and others in the Rad lineup:

[Eric7]

Dealers have an incentive for you to buy from your local bike store. Of course, they will tell you the cheaper do-it-yourself alternative is no good.  They have to make a living and they have family to support.  Their advice is mostly correct, if somewhat exaggerated, if you don't know how to fix a bike.  I think Rads are good solid bikes - at their price point.

Do you know how to fix a bike? or do you see yourself begging the dealer for help later on?  If you are going to need the dealer's help, then it is probably better to spend the extra money to buy from the dealer?  If you don't know how to fix a bike and cannot devote the time to learn and some money for tools, then you are better off with the dealer.  Usually, the money I save from not going to the dealer allows me to buy all the tools I want.  Think of the time and gas and wear and tear on your car if you have to drive the bike to the dealer to drop off, and then to pick up the bike. Do you have a car rack for a 65 pound bike? Meaning no disrespect here.  A rack for taking the bike to the dealer is something else you have to buy. I got most of my parts from the common mail order site with free 2-day shipping - but you need to know what to order. If none of this sounds exciting, and you just want to ride, go to the dealer.

Do you really want to live on the edge? buy a Rad Bike in the USA.  They have 750 watts of power.  But you have to deal with all the logistics and take some risks with no warranty. And if something breaks due to a manufacturing defect, you are totally out of luck. So it is all a big risk.  But that is the type of project that excites me.  You have to think that the project is to get a "hot rod" bike up and running because there will be delays and frustrations if you only think about having no bike to ride.

Disclaimer - don't break any laws. I don't know if you can legally import a bike from the US and you might be operating an illegal bike.  Maybe there is an exception for someone buying a bike on vacation.  I urge you not to break the law.

[JimInPT]

I urge you not to break the law.

You're a nicer guy than me; for the last 20 years or so I urge people to consider the sanity, practicality and sensibility of the law in question - we had enough laws to run a civilized society 100 years ago, most of them now are just purchased from politicians by lobbyists of one stripe or another to benefit one special interest or another.  Put enough coins into the machine, laws come out.  And now, it seems, even longstanding laws intended to prevent damage to persons and property through fraud and/or violence are routinely ignored by those sworn to enforce them.

Hence my soon-to-be-installed Bolton controller upgrade.   

[Eric7]

This is purely my personal opinion of course, but I've never seen any reason to buy a Runner instead of a Mini StepThru.  The Mini gives you 7 speeds, a front suspension, fenders and a folding option.  Unless you really need the frame design or a specific accessory of the Runner for some reason, why pay the same (quite a bit more, in the case of the Runner Plus) and get a lot less?  Those extra gears would also help a bit with the Canadian power-restriction oppression when climbing hills, although you might be able to add a Bolton controller/display upgrade.

I'd be interested to hear from Runner owners who considered a MiniST as well and why the Runner is preferable; maybe I'm missing something significant.

Here's my tarted-up choice from last March after considering the Runners and others in the Rad lineup:

Yes.  I agree with JimInPT. I also suggest the Rad Mini Step Thru.  I am older now and the easy on easy off helps and I am of the age where I have nothing to prove to anyone.  Also, if I have a visitor of various sizes, they can all ride the bike for fun. Sometimes I ride a regular bike and my spouse or a kid rides the step thru so there is a lot of flexibility there.  Before ebikes, I suppose a step-through frame would be heavier and less rigid but the step-thru is very rigid and the motor in an ebike compensates for the weight.  This was my first ebike and I did not realize the advantages until I owned one.  Things like lightweight accessories are not as important because you have a motor.  The only downside I think is you cannot add a seat to the rack for hauling a lightweight small kid - but I don't have one.

JimInPT, regarding your Bolton controller, more power to you!!  Sorry.  Can't resist making the joke.  I respect your opinion and input as always.  Please tell me how it goes, I am very interested.

[JimInPT]

Also, if I have a visitor of various sizes, they can all ride the bike for fun. Sometimes I ride a regular bike and my spouse or a kid rides the step thru so there is a lot of flexibility there.

JimInPT, regarding your Bolton controller, more power to you!!  Sorry.  Can't resist making the joke.  I respect your opinion and input as always.

Heh-heh, thanks!  You make an excellent point - my sister and a couple others have tried out my MiniST and while it's very specifically set up for my geometry and old fatass, they were able to hop on and ride with no problems or adjustments needed, even if it's not optimum for them in my settings.  Of course, the Runners have the same advantage, also being low lift-over stepthroughs.

I think I've seen others hack on a rear seat and pegs to the Mini's back rack, but it's not nearly as purposed for passengers as the Runner or Wagon - that's the best case I can think of for those models.  But aside from little kids, how many people ever ride two-up, no matter what the advertising photos show?

Re: the controller upgrade, I've been making a few rough measurements and eyeballing all the possibilities and I think the install on the MiniST should be no sweat, with the controller in place of the original, but might have to use some heavy-duty velcro and zipties if I can't mod the factory mounting points.  Unfortunately, the plastic controller-enclosure box I got for about $15 probably won't fit in the current controller location - it "might" squeeze in once I try it, but I'd have to lose the U-lock I added to secure the battery so I probably won't bother.  (You guys know that the entire lineup's batteries, except for the very latest new models, can be unlocked, turned on, or stolen with a blank uncut key from eBay?)

I don't think the upgrade will be a big deal at all, but I think I'll just do a temporary lashup with the old controller/display left in place at first and just moving the wires over to the new stuff to check it all out.

[Jay-Ryan]

Thank you Eric7... 

Dealers have an incentive for you to buy from your local bike store. Of course, they will tell you the cheaper do-it-yourself alternative is no good.  They have to make a living and they have family to support.  Their advice is mostly correct, if somewhat exaggerated, if you don't know how to fix a bike.  I think Rads are good solid bikes - at their price point.

Well, the bikes they're peddling (sure pun intended) ar as expensive, in many cases more.  I agree with feeding family and paying bills...  Who doesn't?

Do you know how to fix a bike? or do you see yourself begging the dealer for help later on?  If you are going to need the dealer's help, then it is probably better to spend the extra money to buy from the dealer?  If you don't know how to fix a bike and cannot devote the time to learn and some money for tools, then you are better off with the dealer.  Usually, the money I save from not going to the dealer allows me to buy all the tools I want.  Think of the time and gas and wear and tear on your car if you have to drive the bike to the dealer to drop off, and then to pick up the bike. Do you have a car rack for a 65 pound bike? Meaning no disrespect here.  A rack for taking the bike to the dealer is something else you have to buy. I got most of my parts from the common mail order site with free 2-day shipping - but you need to know what to order. If none of this sounds exciting, and you just want to ride, go to the dealer.

As far as repairing a bike?  I'm comfortable with doing general maintenance and light repairs.  I troubleshoot/repair computer systems for a living and ordering parts isn't frightening as long as I can locate the correct part number or a reasonable drop in replacement.  No, I'm not a mechanic, but I've worked on my own dirt bikes and traditional bicycles back in the day.  Now for transporting if I screw something up beyond my abilities to repair on my own...  That might be different...  I do have a minivan and ample help to lift it in, and the dealer already has said they'd happily work on it.  I'm not sure yet if it will fit in my van upright with the handle bars folded down, but can always ease it in on its side if need be.  Or in worst case, have the dealer drop by with their mobile service.

Do you really want to live on the edge? buy a Rad Bike in the USA.  They have 750 watts of power.  But you have to deal with all the logistics and take some risks with no warranty. And if something breaks due to a manufacturing defect, you are totally out of luck. So it is all a big risk.  But that is the type of project that excites me.  You have to think that the project is to get a "hot rod" bike up and running because there will be delays and frustrations if you only think about having no bike to ride.

No, man...  I mean at some point, I might do my own custom electronics work, but if I wanted "more power!" right now, I'd have spent the $8000cad to import and licence a Juiced HyperscorpionX or bought a gasoline motorcycle.  Hyperscorpionx would be near equivalent to an on-road moped which has to be regitered and insured...    Of course at 1000w, it's double the legal limit for a bicycle in New Brunswick, Canada anyway.  Cannot be used on bike paths at all.

Disclaimer - don't break any laws. I don't know if you can legally import a bike from the US and you might be operating an illegal bike.  Maybe there is an exception for someone buying a bike on vacation.  I urge you not to break the law.

There is no law against a higher powered or foreign purchased bicycle.  One just cannot drive it on the road or bicycle path...  Off-road only.

Like JimInPT said...  I take into consideration how applicable a given law is and act accordingly...   And by accordingly, I don't mean flaunting my disrespect for authority, but quietly sneak by inconspicuously...  Just because you have 1000w with 40A controller doesn't mean you should go down a sidewalk at 50kph (30mph)!  Ghost pedal, limit to 15mph, and 'ding' your bell as you ride up on pedestrians.

Discretion is key!!

Cheers!

[Radding Along]

Though it's true the original Runner is one speed, the new Runner plus has the traditional 7 speeds offered on other Rad bikes. In addition, the plus model has the bench seat in back as a standard item. And of course the improved display and clear plastic skirt around the rear wheel to keep water hitting your legs.

The mini is a great bike, but it's very different than a Runner. The only thing they have in common is that they cater to shorter riders.

Rad is the largest ebike manufacturer in the US. They are heavily funded and doing extremely well. In my opinion, they will be more apt to have parts available than the other smaller ebike manufacturers. And no other manufacturer has the number of repair facilities that Rad has.

Maybe Rad isn't for you, but it's not because of their customer service.

[JimInPT]

Like JimInPT said...  I take into consideration how applicable a given law is and act accordingly...   And by accordingly, I don't mean flaunting my disrespect for authority, but quietly sneak by inconspicuously...  Just because you have 1000w with 40A controller doesn't mean you should go down a sidewalk at 50kph (30mph)!  Ghost pedal, limit to 15mph, and 'ding' your bell as you ride up on pedestrians.

Discretion is key!!

Cheers!

Bingo!  I completely agree and even hung one more big bell and an electronic horn on my MiniST for quiet woods, the shoreline trail and street traffic; there's no reason to be a jackass as you go through life nor reason to mess with others' enjoyment of it.  And don't scare the horses.  But within those and a few other rules for civilized living, I try to adapt myself and my stuff to achieve my goals without feeling a need to check with strangers first to see what they might think about it.  I'm a little too long in the tooth now to hotrod around in any serious way, but I got 130 mph motorcycling and flying at somewhat higher speeds done and out of my system when I could; now 25-30 max on a 90-lb e-bike is about what my strength and reflexes can reliably deal with if I'm not taking the truck out and I just want to haul my fat ass up the steep hills with a little expediency and self-respect. 

As they say.... better to ask forgiveness than permission, right?

[Jay-Ryan]

Bingo!  I completely agree and even hung one more big bell and an electronic horn on my MiniST for quiet woods, the shoreline trail and street traffic; there's no reason to be a jackass as you go through life nor reason to mess with others' enjoyment of it.  And don't scare the horses.  But within those and a few other rules for civilized living, I try to adapt myself and my stuff to achieve my goals without feeling a need to check with strangers first to see what they might think about it.  I'm a little too long in the tooth now to hotrod around in any serious way, but I got 130 mph motorcycling and flying at somewhat higher speeds done and out of my system when I could; now 25-30 max on a 90-lb e-bike is about what my strength and reflexes can reliably deal with if I'm not taking the truck out and I just want to haul my fat ass up the steep hills with a little expediency and self-respect. 

As they say.... better to ask forgiveness than permission, right?

Yeah, that's right...  Respect...  Something this crazy world has certainly been lacking as of late...  Well, there's still us old guys wondering what all the fuss is about as we turn off our screens and head to the parks, woods, or other trails for some much needed serenity.  Eh?

I think, after viewing more videos about custom electronics (Motorcycle lighting and horns, etc)...  Another point for the Runner with center console is a place to hide the extra 6-12v battery without changing the overall 'look' of the bike....  I keep longing for my old Honda trail 125 when I see pics of the runner...  It's trying to tell me something.   

Cheers!
Jay

[Jay-Ryan]

Though it's true the original Runner is one speed, the new Runner plus has the traditional 7 speeds offered on other Rad bikes. In addition, the plus model has the bench seat in back as a standard item. And of course the improved display and clear plastic skirt around the rear wheel to keep water hitting your legs.

The mini is a great bike, but it's very different than a Runner. The only thing they have in common is that they cater to shorter riders.

Rad is the largest ebike manufacturer in the US. They are heavily funded and doing extremely well. In my opinion, they will be more apt to have parts available than the other smaller ebike manufacturers. And no other manufacturer has the number of repair facilities that Rad has.

Maybe Rad isn't for you, but it's not because of their customer service.

Thanks for the insight, Radding Along!

Cheers!
Jay

[Veggyhed]

In the '90s I used to commute on my mountain bike. Then I quit riding for 20 years.
I then decided driving was ridiculous and got rid of my vehicles and bought a mini 4.
For  two years the mini 4 was my transport besides occasional ride shares when the weather was bad. After 2,000 plus miles I bought a rad runner plus 2 months ago.

Comparing the mini 4 and the Runner  Plus I wish I would have bought the Runner Plus except it was not out yet.
The important part of this post is to know that my bicycles are used for commuting.

The mini 4 seems to have more get up and go then the plus even though they have the same wheel size same motor. I believe the controller is configured differently. This is not a bad thing.
When I talk about the difference in power there is a hill that I have to ascend on my commute and there is a difference between 3 mph when comparing the mini and the plus. The plus being slower.

The mini can carry 275 lb versus the runner at 300. With myself and groceries and stuff I get close to 300 lb and the plus can handle the weight better and rides better. It does have a low center of gravity and the pedals are closer to the road than the mini.

I removed the back seat from the plus in order to place panniers.
I believe the plus is 3 in longer than the mini and it kind of feels like that on the road.
For some odd reason the plus is more comfortable when on the road and absorbs far more road shock than the mini.
Both bikes are in an upright position which is very helpful riding in traffic.
I find the step through frame of the plus better when using large panniers in not having to swing your leg over the load.

Both bicycles I find easy to work on and I am not a mechanic. They can actually be kind of enjoyable. I think most people if they had to sit down with the bikes would almost never have to take them into a bike shop. I have been told by several rad owners here in town that pretty much any bike shop now will work on your bike but not troubleshoot any electronics.

The whole direct to customer is changing the bike game right now. Specialized as you know a huge bike company is now selling directly to the public. Direct to the public seems to be the future for the time being especially considering specialized is now doing this.

The things on both bikes that need adjusting/maintenance most often is chain lube and adjusting the brakes. Otherwise it's pretty maintenance-free besides airing the tires of course.

If you have any other questions by the comparison between both bikes just let me know.

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[Veggyhed]

After posting that I have some more thoughts on the handlebars and stem which may be controversial.

The long stem on the mini does not lead itself to stability and precision of maneuvering the bike when compared to the runner plus which has a conventional stem length.
I have observed when allowing others to ride my bike they appear a little wobbly when first using the long stemmed mini.
If you look at conventional geometry such as road bikes and mountain bikes they have very short stems for precision control.
Currently my headset on the mini needs to be rebuilt and I think this is due to the stem being so long.
I have read where mini owners have taken their bikes on single track which I've never quite understood. Maybe it's that I am too aggressive of a rider but I don't believe you would have that great of control on single track with a long-stemmed handlebar.
All of this is probably what makes the plus a much more comfortable bike on the road and the less of a feel of road shock along the same roads I have ridden the mini and runner plus on.

Regarding the price.
I bought my mini for $1599 later that year the price dropped to $1299. I'm not sure what the current price is now.  If folding the bike is important to you then maybe you can justify these prices otherwise I strongly suggest purchasing the Runner Plus if you're interested in a bike with 20-in wheels. The only benefit I see is the ability to fold.

On another note being lower to the ground and running 20-in wheels seems to be more stable and you feel more confident when riding on slick roads.

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[JimInPT]

I believe the plus is 3 in longer than the mini and it kind of feels like that on the road.

Thanks for all your Runner Plus insights!

According to the specs on the webpage, the Runner Plus is 0.6" longer wheelbase than the Mini, so just a little longer.  The chainring is set further forward; maybe that contributes to the handling feel.

One little trick I used when comparing models last year still works well - open the webpages for the Mini(s) and the Runner(s), one bike each in separate tabs, then make sure they're scrolled all the way to the top.  Rad has laid in the photos in the same position on each page, so you can just click back and forth between tabs for a quick before/after side-view comparison of the overall designs and geometry.  Helps to eyeball and comprehend the differences quickly and easily.

Cheers.

[Veggyhed]

Yes that is correct for the wheelbase.
Total length is 71.5 versus 68 and the chain stay is 19 versus 20.2. Frame size is 18 versus 16.

When on the bike the saddle is in a lower position on the runner when your legs are in the correct position on the pedals. The bike truly feels low to the ground and does have a lower center of gravity which makes it incredibly stable.
The Runner Plus is a utility bike and the mini is not even though I did my best to try and convert it to that.
The runner Plus is like a small pickup truck on the road when compared to the standard cargo bike. Therefore I feel the runner plus has greater  versatility than the mini series.
What's important to note in my opinion is that neither of these bikes ride like a normal bike. The extreme upright riding position removes peddling efficiency but this is made up by the electric motor therefore you have comfort and efficiency which makes e-bikes comfortably efficient to get around on.


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