Brand New Bike- 3 Burst Tubes in 24 Hours!

[notsofresh]

Hi all- I took delivery of a RadWagon 4 yesterday afternoon. Assembled it (the boss for the deflipilator was stripped, but I finished putting it together anyway). All checked out and I was on my first test ride, 1.5 blocks from my house, when the rear tube burst. I had filled it to 55 lbs because I'm a bigger guy. (I also have been working on bikes for 20 years- I'm not a pro, but I'm far from a rookie.)

Luckily I had ordered two replacement tubes 'just in case,' and they were to be delivered today. Then, about 10 pm, as I sat inside, I heard a boom from the garage. The front tube had exploded for no reason as I sat inside!

So the new tubes came late today. I replaced the rear one, filled to just 40 lbs this time (the book recommends 50 and the tires say 35-65), then came inside to eat. As I was getting ready to go out and replace the front, I heard another pop. The new rear tube burst as the bike sat, upside down, in the garage, with only 40 lbs in it!

The tiny bit I rode the bike was great but this is just not acceptable. I have no confidence in these parts and I'm thinking I need to return the bike as long as there is no other source for them. The rad power CS rep I talked to this morning was nice and there are free replacements n the way, but c'mon! 

[Radio Runner]

Are you sure the wire bead of the tire was fully seated on the rim as you were inflating so it didn't creep at full PSI?

[handlebar]

The location if the hole could show whether it came from the rim, the bead, or the tread. On my back wheel I got pinholes in three tubes at the center of the tread. The third time, I marked the tire on the sprocket side at the valve, and I marked the tube on the sprocket side. That way, I could align the tire and tube to find the exact location. It was 1/4" of wire as fine as facial hair, barely poking through. I don't know how it got there. If I'd run over it, wire that fine would have bent or broken instead of going through a thick rubber lug.

I had the tube come out on both sides when I mounted a 2" tire falsely labeled 3". I inflated to 10 psi, checked both sides to be sure the bead was evenly seated, and increased pressure to the recommended 30. Within 100 yards, I stopped and walked the bike back because the tube was coming out on both sides. I didn't know the tube was damaged until I checked for bubbling underwater. Being squeezed past the bead had caused several pinch punctures.

For several years, I rode on 1-3/8 x 26" tires at 60 psi. A puncture would sound like a 22 caliber cartridge going off. An overnight camping trip with a friend involved a 20-mile stretch of gravel where my rear tube popped three times on the way out. Repairs with vulcanizing patches were quick, and in my experience, they're permanent on butyl tubes. The cause of the punctures was a mystery until recently, when I read that inner tubes eventually get brittle. That tube had been in service 10 years or more. I guess riding on miles of gravel with camping gear on the back and a worn tire flexed the old tube too much.  I had no trouble on the return trip. Maybe I'd patched the weak spots.

Did your tubes pop at the same spot? If it happened to me, I'd look for the corresponding spot on the rim or tire.

[notsofresh]

Thanks for the ideas. I did check the bead on both the F and R installs- though I saw after the last pop that the R bead had split- so that wasn't it, at least initially.

All 3 tubes have split along seams. Different spots (on different wheels, even). No punctures. When I stretch what's left of the tube between my fingers I can see spots open up, like pores, where the rubber seems to have been stretched too much and was about to fail.

I just think Rad tells people to put WAY too much air in these tires. I went to a couple of motorcycle/moped shops today, rim and tire with me, to get advice. They all said that 18x2.75-3 motorcycle/moped tubes and tires should work ok, running about 30 lbs of air. Unfortunately, only one store had one tube in stock, so I'm stuck waiting for some online orders. Should be here in the next week or so and I'll update.

Add: Rad offered to refund my money on the bike, which I appreciate, and is sending new tubes and tires (not sure I trust the parts, though). They've been helpful but it has been very frustrating.

[Ddaybc]

Notsofresh, your description of the tubes sounds like age related rubber crystallization. Maybe the warehouse the tubes were stored in didn't rotate their stock correctly as I think Rad doesn't store tubes and tires for any length of time. At any rate, I hope you get your issue resolved. Flat tires really suck!

[handlebar]

Thanks for the ideas. I did check the bead on both the F and R installs- though I saw after the last pop that the R bead had split- so that wasn't it, at least initially.

All 3 tubes have split along seams. Different spots (on different wheels, even). No punctures. When I stretch what's left of the tube between my fingers I can see spots open up, like pores, where the rubber seems to have been stretched too much and was about to fail.

I just think Rad tells people to put WAY too much air in these tires. I went to a couple of motorcycle/moped shops today, rim and tire with me, to get advice. They all said that 18x2.75-3 motorcycle/moped tubes and tires should work ok, running about 30 lbs of air. Unfortunately, only one store had one tube in stock, so I'm stuck waiting for some online orders. Should be here in the next week or so and I'll update.

Add: Rad offered to refund my money on the bike, which I appreciate, and is sending new tubes and tires (not sure I trust the parts, though). They've been helpful but it has been very frustrating.

It turns out that my pinhole leaks from the wire whisker all happened to the OEM tube. The punctures were so tiny that the first two times I put the inflated tube underwater, I didn't see any bubbles. They were so tiny that it could hold pressure for days, then go flat overnight. I figured the tube must be defective, made of rubber with air bubbles.

I ordered these.
https://amzn.to/3MnDcpd

One has six patches from when I mounted a wrongly marked tire on the front. The other has two patches because I pinched it when I put the original tire back on. I've mounted lots of bicycle and motorcycle tires and never pinched a tube before. My Radrunner has 3.3 inch tires. No such tubes are available, so it uses 4 inch tubes. I guess that makes it tricky to mount a tire without pinching.

Laying deflated tubes one on another, I saw that the Amazon tubes are exactly the same size as OEM, and a caliper showed that the rubber was equally thick. However, the Amazon rubber felt more substantial, and the tubes were slightly heavier.

I've been running the OEM tubes for three months. Lately, the tires seemed a little noisier and the ride a little softer. Then, on a sharp turn at slow speed and close quarters, I hit a sign post with my old-school mirror (big and flat and on a long stem). I had to stop and adjust it. Both tires had dropped from 30 to 25 psi. Adding air reduced rolling resistance and noise and improved handling. The tires aren't rated for more than 30 PSI.

In my experience, butyl tubes aren't porous, but these are. My Amazon tubes have been hanging in the garage three months, puffed up and covered with patches. I think I'll upgrade to the Amazon tubes.

[notsofresh]

UPDATE: Having another look at the tires, i noticed that both beads had split. One split crossways (like perpendicular to the tread) and the other lengthwise, about a half-shoelace width wide. Talked to Rad CS again and they sent me new tires and more tubes. So that was three tubes and two tires lost in the first couple days. Now my assumption is that the beads had split and that was causing the tubes to fail.

I spent most of the Saturday Memorial Day weekend going to different bicycle/motorcycle shops, wheel in hand, asking what they'd recommend. Turns out 18x2.75-3 tubes and tires will fit (it's a moped and older dirtbike size, apparently). Unfortunately, its a rare size these days and only one place had one tube in stock, so I ordered these:

https://amzn.to/3cNkr26

and these:

https://amzn.to/3S80svy

I got those tires because they were available right away- they are heavy (about 7 lbs each vs. 4 lbs for the originals) but I actually like the knobby tread and do have some dirt I will ride on regularly. There are others with street tread that can be had with longer shipping times.

A few days later they came and I installed them at ~35 lbs (what the cycle guys recommended). No problems since and I've put about 45 miles on them in the last week. I have the new tubes and tires Rad sent me under warranty, but frankly I doubt I'll ever use them.

I really like the bike but I'm very disappointed in Rad- the customer service was great, but what good is that if the parts are junk? And what about people without the skills/$ to sort out and find better parts for themselves? It's too bad because people ask about the bike everywhere. I feel like I have to tell them that the bike itself is great but Rad seems to think its customers are part of its QA team.

[tacomanatx]

One other thing to check is if there is a loose piece of polyester in the tire itself.  I had a road bike get random punctures for about 3 months I finally took the tire off and lightly rubbed a cotton ball over the inside of the tire and found a very very slight loose fiber (Kevlar in this case) that caused punctures after about 6 miles on hot roads.  Put a Slime Glue patch on it and the tired lasted the rest of its life.

Whenever I get a flat with a tube set up (most of my bikes are tubeless) I always do this test.

[JBLee]

I too have had the same problem, except only two tubes in two days, the second failure was catastrophic and with less experience on a bike could have been a lot worse. The tube and tire wrapped around the hub when they blew out at about 20 miles an hour causing the rear tire to lock up. I am fed up with all of the reports of tire failure and have decided to switch to motorcycle tires. I have tried to contact rad on three separate occasions and never got past hold. At this point I would find it very hard to recommend anything that they sell , even though I love my Radwagon4. I guess it is just going to take someone getting seriously hurt to get rad off its butt and do something. I certainly would not feel very confident if I had purchased this as a kid hauler.

[handlebar]

One other thing to check is if there is a loose piece of polyester in the tire itself.  I had a road bike get random punctures for about 3 months I finally took the tire off and lightly rubbed a cotton ball over the inside of the tire and found a very very slight loose fiber (Kevlar in this case) that caused punctures after about 6 miles on hot roads.  Put a Slime Glue patch on it and the tired lasted the rest of its life.

Whenever I get a flat with a tube set up (most of my bikes are tubeless) I always do this test.

With my Radrunner, I would get punctures so small that I might not see bubbles if I submerged the inflated tube. I finally found the culprit by marking the drive side of the tire at the valve and marking the drive side of the tube so that when I found the leak in the tube I'd know exactly where to look in the tire. I saw a little discolored spot. I thought I felt something but couldn't grab it with tweezers until I pushed it by inserting a wire behind it. It was a wire as fine as window screening or a human whisker. When I reached for calipers to measure the diameter, it fell off my finger and disappeared. Something that fine would have bent or broken rather than go through my tire lug, so I don't know how it got there.

I got my first real flat after 2500 miles. I was surprised that something with so little head hadn't simply been knocked down. For the first time, I noticed how thin and flimsy are the OEM tires on my Radrunner. A combination of low pressure and thin construction can allow an object to push a dimple in a tire, and then it can penetrate instead of being knocked down. In my days with 1-3/8 x 26 tires, they weren't this flimsy until they were worn bald, and then I was vulnerable to flats. The only tires available for the Radrunner's oddball rim size have 30 threads per inch. I've read that this can make them vulnerable because there's more space between threads for an object to make a dimple.

[Radiculous]

Received my New RR6P in June 22.  The front tire was low out of the box. Pumped it up and rode.  Flat again the next day and so on.
(This pump is rad...  https://amzn.to/3bc6VVr ).
Changed the tube today and ran my hand along the inner side of the GMD  tire and found 2 small, long, very sharp protruding things. Cords I'm thinking.  20 trail miles today so far so good.