Chain lube

[Traildad]

I?ve not seen any recommendations to lube the chains on my new RadRover or Expand 5. They look clean and dry. Is there some sort of dry lube on them?

[Roverdrive]

Chain lube is like religion or politics - lots of different opinions and people ready to argue them    Go to a good source like "Sheldon Brown" and you can read the pros and cons of wet vs dry lubes.
I'm not sure about Rad chains but most come from the factory pre-lubed and should be good for at least a few hundred miles.  I thought my RR+ chain looked "bare" and hit it with the same lube I use on my road bikes - TriLube.  It works for me and I seem to get decent chain life if I lube every hundred miles or so and wipe the chain down good.  If you ride in the rain frequently you should probably lube more often.

[Eric7]

I am from the chain lube is not important camp. Here are my reasons especially for an ebike.  But everyone do what they want.  I am just sharing.

1.  You are riding a 60-70 pound bike - more with accessories.  If you were really into efficiency, you would have bought a 50 pound ebike or less.  What is the point of being efficient now at 60 to 70 pounds?
2.  You are using the battery. Any deficiency in chain lube can be overcome with a little more juice - like 10 extra watts at most.
3.  Any efficiency benefit is minimal compared to your battery power. Spend your time and money on another battery instead.
4.  Compared to my non-electric road bike, all the bearings on a Rad is really second-rate, like super store discount quality. Why try so hard? Why not upgrade the derailleur rollers, check the tightness of your bottom bracket bearings or upgrade, check tightness of your wheel bearings, ensure your brakes are not rubbing, buy a better chain. Use a pedal clip to improve your pedalling. Not criticizing Rad, there is a battery and motor - that's why.
5.  You are not pedaling as hard anyway. You are saving 6-10 watts at most with a clean chain instead of a rusted chain - check the web. But that is on a manual bicycle with lots of pedaling. On a 750 watt motor bike, it is hardly worth it.  I also assume your chain is not rusted so the benefit is less.
6.  A lot of efficiency can be gained by lubing your chain more often with a cheaper lubricant and wiping the same.  Keep your bike relatively warm and dry by storing it in the garage helps.
7.  Chain lube is expensive, ad driven. Unless you are racing, do you really care whether you finish 20 miles 2 minutes ahead? When you have an ebike, getting is getting there 2 minutes early even meaningful? When you ride in a group, do you really care so much you are ahead? Calculate how much the lube is costing you per gallon - you will be amazed. If you can afford it and it makes you feel better - it is fine and I am not here to tell you what to do. But I rather spend my money somewhere else.  Some people think certain brands are just repackaged chainsaw lube of something close to it.
8.  If you are trying so hard to squeeze another 5-10 watts, consider wearing wind cheating racing clothes, aero helmets, using drop bars, aero narrow seats. Increase tire pressure but keep it safe. Every little bit helps.  But - you have a 70 pound bike.  It is not even a trainer with the same geometry as the bike you plan to use on race day.

<<added>> Based on the above, a little WD40 or whatever spray lube you have at home is good enough. I think the trick is to wipe and oil often, especially if you ride when wet to prevent rust. I used WD40, now tri-lube that I use on my lawn equipment, hedge trimmer, and stuff. I buy whatever is on sale at the hardware store. My chain and sprocket looks brand new because I lube and wipe.

[Traildad]

The assembly video didn?t mention lube so I assume they are prelubed. I figured I should make sure. I got an e bike because my knees don?t like to pedal. Therefore most of the strain is on the motor not the chain. All the same if I do pedal a little now and then I don?t want my chain to be rusted solid. Thanks.

[Tree]

i degrease and lube my chain about once a month. it's basic bike maintenance.

I use the 20 oz pour can of Finish Line Citrus Bike Degreaser and Finish Line e-Bike Chain Lube. I'm not brand loyal, these were just the ones I bought when I first got my bike, and they work fine. I'm not interested in price or any sort of comparison shopping.

[handlebar]

In the old days, I'd pop the master link, soak the chain in the bottom of a can with kerosene, hang it to dry, and soak it in a can with motor oil. In thousands of miles, I never saw evidence of stretching.

I would have had to break a link to soak my Radrunner chain. Ten months ago I bought this.
https://amzn.to/3S5egY9

I wiped the chain with a paper towel, marked a link as my starting point, and used a cotton swab to dab the lube on each joint. That made it neat and cheap to use. It wicked nicely into the cracks. I then wiped the chain with a paper towel. It runs quieter and cleaner than before. I also use it on my Radmission.

[tacomanatx]

You should have Lube(s) based on the environment you ride in/ are riding.

For most of the year I use https://pedros.com/collections/lubricants-grease/products/chainj, if its going to be wetter than normal I switch to this https://pedros.com/collections/lubricants-grease/products/syn-lube, if its going to be real dry I switch to wax.

I follow the recommendations from "Zinn and the art of bike maintenance" books.  I put one drop of lube on each link (I start with the master link) and work my way around.  I never would clean the chain after but a bike shop noted this is why my rollers were always gunked up so now after I use a Heavy duty paper towel to remove excess lube.

[Eric7]

One secret is a big towel. 

I lube my chain enough with cheap WD40 (or whatever is on sale) so that a solid cake never develops.  By the time black wax like dirt develop that you can remove with a screwdriver or a brush, I think it is too late. 

Day before trash day, put a lot of trash cardboard or newspaper or junk mail on the ground.  Spray the chain, chain wheel, gear cluster, derailleur, everything.  Spray a lot.  Let all the dirt wash out.  Wipe with the towel. I don't even use a brush. Repeat until it is all gone.  Toss the towel in the wash. 

Since WD-40 is cheap at $30 a gallon, you can afford to do this.  If you buy $100 to $120 a gallon lube, it is harder to do.

[handlebar]

One secret is a big towel. 

I lube my chain enough with cheap WD40 (or whatever is on sale) so that a solid cake never develops.  By the time black wax like dirt develop that you can remove with a screwdriver or a brush, I think it is too late. 

Day before trash day, put a lot of trash cardboard or newspaper or junk mail on the ground.  Spray the chain, chain wheel, gear cluster, derailleur, everything.  Spray a lot.  Let all the dirt wash out.  Wipe with the towel. I don't even use a brush. Repeat until it is all gone.  Toss the towel in the wash. 

Since WD-40 is cheap at $30 a gallon, you can afford to do this.  If you buy $100 to $120 a gallon lube, it is harder to do.

There's wet lube and there's dry lube. WD-40 seems like a third approach: no lube. I don't know whether it or diesel fuel lubricates less.

Dry lube keeps my chains clean. The disadvantage is that you have to lube more often, but with a cotton swab, it doesn't take much. My plastic bottle is opaque with a nozzle that can't be removed, but by hefting and jiggling the bottle, I estimate that I've used a tablespoon in ten months. That's about ten cents a month.

If I used wet lube and wanted to clean my chain, I'd buy a breaker and the right size master or missing link. A chain will coil into a disk about 5" in diameter and 1/4" thick. A coffee can or plastic tub in which refrigerated food is sold, may have the right diameter. I'd cut a disk of hardware cloth, maybe 1/2" mesh, to put in the bottom so grit could settle away from the chain. A little soaking and and a little shaking and the chain is clean.

It shouldn't require more than a cup of fluid. At $4.35 a gallon, diesel fuel is cheaper than WD-40. Gasoline is even cheaper, and it would dry completely to avoid diluting the lubricant when it's applied.

[handlebar]

I am from the chain lube is not important camp. Here are my reasons especially for an ebike.  But everyone do what they want.  I am just sharing.

1.  You are riding a 60-70 pound bike - more with accessories.  If you were really into efficiency, you would have bought a 50 pound ebike or less.  What is the point of being efficient now at 60 to 70 pounds?
2.  You are using the battery. Any deficiency in chain lube can be overcome with a little more juice - like 10 extra watts at most.

5.  You are not pedaling as hard anyway. You are saving 6-10 watts at most with a clean chain instead of a rusted chain - check the web. But that is on a manual bicycle with lots of pedaling. On a 750 watt motor bike, it is hardly worth it.  I also assume your chain is not rusted so the benefit is less.

<<added>> Based on the above, a little WD40 or whatever spray lube you have at home is good enough. I think the trick is to wipe and oil often, especially if you ride when wet to prevent rust. I used WD40, now tri-lube that I use on my lawn equipment, hedge trimmer, and stuff. I buy whatever is on sale at the hardware store. My chain and sprocket looks brand new because I lube and wipe.

1. If the rider weighs 230 pounds, a different bicycle won't change the gross weight much.

2. The tests I read about were for oiled chains that had gotten dirty in a race. A chain that was cleaned and not relubed can take 26 watts, according to the web. (To me, "cleaned and not lubed" sounds like WD-40.) On my Radmission, PAS 1 may read 30 watts, and that makes a big difference. That's electrical input. Mechanical output is probably about 20 watts. If 20 watts of mechanical assistance can really help, 26 watts of mechanical hinderance could really hurt.

5. Lubrication will keep the chain from "stretching," and that will protect sprockets. A worn sprocket will absorb watts and eventually need replacement.

Noise is my biggest concern. Look at this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQC5cKXrLJw

If his chain hadn't been so noisy, we would have heard a satisfying skull pop as he took that tree rat completely by surprise.

I used to spray WD-40 on saw, trimmer, shear, lopper, and pruner blades, primarily to prevent sap buildup. Now I use a little squeeze bottle with 5W motor oil and a brush applicator. It's better at preventing sap buildup and rust.

[Eric7]

Keep in mind that a chain is a $16 part. So the question is - why worry about a $16 part so much?  Why use a $16 bottle of lube to protect a $16 chain.

Also, WD 40 does leave an oily residue. Put some between your fingers and see if it is slippery. My experience with door hinges, gate hinges, locks, and bicycle chains is that it provides some degree of long term lubrication. 

It is easy to repeat that WD-40 is not a lubricant but it is not based on facts. <<I think the people who post it on the web is using hyperbole/exaggeration to state a point to influence your decision. But it is not strictly true.  WD40 at least inhibit rust and provide minimal lubrication - it is better than nothing.>>  Based on my personal experience, and by rubbing it between your fingers, will show you that it leaves an oily residue and decreases friction.  Do your own experiment.  Spray some on a window, come back in a week, see if it is still slippery.  Rub some between your fingers. 

I think no lubricant is putting the chain in a carburetor cleaner or xylene (with or without scrubbing) and then drying it.  That would really produce a dry chain devoid of lubricants.

Motor oil or any oil except maybe the type that dries and oxidize to a gum, is good.  I am not against motor oil, or general purpose lubricants and I like the squeeze bottle idea.  It is my feeling that one should not spend so much money/effort protecting a $16 part.

Unoiled chains squeak.  I have lubed squeaky rusty chains with WD40 and that gets rid of the squeeks for a month easy.  I don't know if unoiled chains make more noise in their interaction with the gear cluster or chain ring.

<<I agree with people who says that if you have time adding some oil, other than wd40, would be beneficial.  I am just lazy but I might get a squeeze bottle and put some motor oil in it.  Whatever motor oil I use on my lawn mower.

WD40 suits my lifestyle just fine.  I rode bikes for decades and commuted on them, I've never stretched a chain.  Maybe chain stretching is for people 10x more athletic than me who are on their bikes all the time and pump real hard. This is fine for me and I am not putting anyone down. For daily commuting, I never was able to stretch the chain. I do have multiple bikes.  I also have a lot less clothing damage from an oily chain (something for commuters to consider).  If WD40 is truly nothing, it is also beneficial to commuters who don't want to dirty up their clothes, which cost a lot more than the chains.

One of my theories is that a clean chain with WD40 beats a dirty chain regardless of how much expensive oil you put on.  If you have to scrub your chain before lubricating, you are already behind.  Best to spray that WD40 often and keep the chain clean than carefully dripping a drop of expensive stuff per link.>>

[tacomanatx]

Keep in mind that a chain is a $16 part. So the question is - why worry about a $16 part so much?  Why use a $16 bottle of lube to protect a $16 chain.

That $16 chain not properly lubricated and reviewed from time to time will wear out a much more expensive cassette.

[ag4go]

I agree with Eric7, why spend $16 on a small bottle of oil to protect a $16 chain. I do believe that you should so some maintenance on your chain and WD40 is perfect for cleaning your chain, it is also better than nothing for oiling your chain. After some brief research, I found that the same company that makes WD40 also make 3 in 1 oil and a bunch of other household products. They also have a full bike division devoted to bike products.

https://www.wd40.com/products/?category=bike

Personally I have found WD40 to be a great product, I even use it as oil in some cases but I do find that it does not hold up as well as real oil. It shouldn't, that is not what it is designed to be. Yes it feels greasy to the touch but does not hold up well under load. If you have a perfectly clean chain, it will dry out quickly, if you have a dirty chain, it will appear to hold up longer since the formula will stick to the dirt and grime. If you take the time to clean you chain, take the time to oil your chain correctly.

These are my thought and I am not endorsing WD40 just stating the facts. It's a great product but only when used to do what it is supposed to do. Oil is not one of them.

[handlebar]

Keep in mind that a chain is a $16 part. So the question is - why worry about a $16 part so much?  Why use a $16 bottle of lube to protect a $16 chain.

Also, WD 40 does leave an oily residue. Put some between your fingers and see if it is slippery. My experience with door hinges, gate hinges, locks, and bicycle chains is that it provides some degree of long term lubrication. 

It is easy to repeat that WD-40 is not a lubricant but it is not based on facts. <<I think the people who post it on the web is using hyperbole/exaggeration to state a point to influence your decision. But it is not strictly true.  WD40 at least inhibit rust and provide minimal lubrication - it is better than nothing.>>  Based on my personal experience, and by rubbing it between your fingers, will show you that it leaves an oily residue and decreases friction.  Do your own experiment.  Spray some on a window, come back in a week, see if it is still slippery.  Rub some between your fingers. 

Motor oil or any oil except maybe the type that dries and oxidize to a gum, is good.  I am not against motor oil, or general purpose lubricants and I like the squeeze bottle idea.  It is my feeling that one should not spend so much money/effort protecting a $16 part.

I relubed my chain, using a cotton swab to apply dry lube to each side of the 110 rollers. Before, the bottle weighed 94.00 grams. After, it weighed 93.15, so I'd used 0.85 gram. It's a light petroleum distillate with teflon, so the specific gravity must be about 0.85. I'd used about 1 ml, which cost me 8 cents. (That would be the cost of 2 teaspoons of WD-40 at $30 a gallon. WD-40 looks like a costly alternative.)

Adding drops of lube to the swab was a bit of a hassle. I have a one-ounce squeeze bottle that came with various needles including a 25-gauge elbow. I'll try it next time. The ability to generate a really fine squirt should make the task quicker and neater.

Diesel fuel is slippery to touch and will quiet a hinge. That's why I compared it with WD-40. Either would prevent rust overnight and maybe for a week, but I've found that it doesn't take long for WD-40 to disappear, and I find rust pitting.

The top photo shows aftermarket squeeze bottles. I intend to use the one on the right for chain lube. If you invert the middle one and squeeze, you can watch the brush fill with oil to brush onto a hedge trimmer blade, for example, or to keep my pole saw blade from rusting. (A new blade would cost $100.) The bottle on the left has a long plastic nozzle to lubricate hinges, for example.

The bottom photo shows the original bottle. The nozzle is intended to produce drops, but they are big and you may not hit the target, so the process is a bit messy and wasteful.

[handlebar]

After some brief research, I found that the same company that makes WD40 also make 3 in 1 oil and a bunch of other household products. They also have a full bike division devoted to bike products.

https://www.wd40.com/products/?category=bike

Personally I have found WD40 to be a great product, I even use it as oil in some cases but I do find that it does not hold up as well as real oil. It shouldn't, that is not what it is designed to be. Yes it feels greasy to the touch but does not hold up well under load. If you have a perfectly clean chain, it will dry out quickly, if you have a dirty chain, it will appear to hold up longer since the formula will stick to the dirt and grime. If you take the time to clean you chain, take the time to oil your chain correctly.

These are my thought and I am not endorsing WD40 just stating the facts. It's a great product but only when used to do what it is supposed to do. Oil is not one of them.

Three-in-one oil was invented for bicycle chains in 1894. Cyclists wanted to clean, lubricate, and protect chains without getting oil on their pants. Within the petroleum industry, one of the byproducts of making gasoline is cycle oil. I ought to buy some. For general use, it's probably better than motor oil.